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09 July 2006 @ 03:35 pm
SG-1 Fic Rant of the Day  
Someone please tell me what memo I missed that states that Daniel must be a whiny man-child who can't take care of himself? Or a lonely depressed man that must get away -- far away -- from this cruel world? Hmm?

Why do the majority of the fic that I find out there make him into this man that suffered child-abuse, needs lots of hugs and cuddles, and turns to Jack for EVERYTHING?

Am I missing something where he is always insecure about his place in the world and SG-1? That he has to always run off and hide because no one understands him? And then only through the support of his friends who search endlessly for him and after their impassioned accolades regarding his greatness, does he come back with them?

Once, maybe twice...not so bad.

But every other fanfic?

I obviously missed that memo.
Current Mood: annoyedannoyed
kamelion: then there's meleenys on July 9th, 2006 08:05 pm (UTC)
That's one reason I stopped reading SG1 fics. It's known as "Danny-whump", and I don't like Danny. I much prefer Daniel. Give me a real, intelligent characterization any time.
Working for the Mandroid: Memoriesmoonshayde on July 9th, 2006 08:15 pm (UTC)
To each her own. I don't have anything against people reading it and liking it. I just get bummed when I find it's the dominate form of fic and I can't get the characterization I want. There's fic out there for everytone if you look hard enough. But the Daniel I want is in short supply.

Then again, so is the Jack, and the Sam, and Teal'c who?

But, I was scared away by the sheer number of Shep/McKay slash out there, too, so there is no pleasing me.
(no subject) - leenys on July 9th, 2006 08:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Autumn Dandelion: Stargate - Daniel handautumndandelion on July 9th, 2006 08:30 pm (UTC)
That's why I stopped writing. Nothing is original anymore.
kamelionleenys on July 9th, 2006 08:58 pm (UTC)
Lord, I said that last year and got my ass beat online. LOL!!
(no subject) - autumndandelion on July 9th, 2006 08:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - moonshayde on July 10th, 2006 12:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
Michelle: crazy people - mulderseramercury on July 9th, 2006 08:55 pm (UTC)
I know what you mean. I mean, I love angst as much as the next writer/reader, but sometimes it goes waaaay too far.
Working for the Mandroid: Adorkablemoonshayde on July 10th, 2006 12:24 am (UTC)
waaay waaay too far ;)
Amy Cooper: Susanna tongueamycooper on July 9th, 2006 09:11 pm (UTC)
So did I. Maybe Susanna ate them up on me to spare me the trama of reading it.
Working for the Mandroid: Couragemoonshayde on July 9th, 2006 09:39 pm (UTC)
Susanna is always lookign out for you, isn't she?
(no subject) - amycooper on July 9th, 2006 10:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Cousin Moki: bad hair dayxayeidemon on July 9th, 2006 09:34 pm (UTC)
I admit it. I've written some Daniel stuff that turns my stomach nowadays. I can't stand to read one overly sentimental story I wrote (and put online!). It had Daniel crying and Jack holding him while he whispered soothing words into the elderly man's ear. Daniel was an old man living alone in Jack's cabin, and Jack was a ghost or something.

Two days after writing that crap, I vowed never to do it again. I've chalked it up to a learning experience. ;)
Working for the Mandroid: Corporalmoonshayde on July 9th, 2006 09:38 pm (UTC)
I think you might be able to get away with that one, though. One, it's not off on some missions in the here and now. Two, Daniel is old. I'm not saying old people are crybabies, but they've seen a lot, done a lot, and usually have more regrets than younger, brasher people do.

And hey, I've written some Daniel stuff that makes *me* want to cry.

There are lots of writers out there and everyone has their own tastes. Which is great! I'm just bemaoning the fact I can't find what I want. It's slim pickings ;)
(no subject) - leenys on July 9th, 2006 11:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
eregyrn: SG - Jack & Danieleregyrn on July 9th, 2006 10:23 pm (UTC)
I think that if you don't like that type of Danny-fic (and I sure don't!), after a while you develop a sixth sense that helps you avoid it (I get very good at spotting them just from the header information) and find the stuff you prefer. Which *is* out there. Though, of course, in decreasing quantities these days. But, I sympathize. Because it's really depressing when you're in the mood for the kind of fic that *you* want, and all you can find is stuff that makes you question the way your brain is wired (... or, alternatively, the way the brains of the people who write/like it are wired...).
Working for the Mandroid: Spotlightmoonshayde on July 10th, 2006 12:26 am (UTC)
Generally, I know where to avoid what I don't like. You get used to it after awhile. Though, trying to find places where there is stuff that I *do* like...now, that's a different story.

Mind you, I have complaints for fic regarding all the characters. Daniel is my punching bag today.

*punches him some more*

It's just that sometimes you have a hankering for a certain kind of fic and when you can't find it...argh ;)
Ael L. Bolt: Properly caffeinatedmartyfan on July 9th, 2006 10:44 pm (UTC)
I saw one like that this morning. Something about the first year as a team, Daniel getting a gift from Jack in the form of adoption papers, and him crying over it. *gag* I couldn't finish it. Daniel is over THIRTY, he doesn't need to be adopted by someone only nine years older than him!

And don't even get me started on all the "Daniel sees something on a mission that triggers intense flashbacks of being abused as a child" badfics.

I've managed to train myself to judge fics by their summaries. If there's lots of spelling and grammar mistakes, or it's something extremely corny, I don't give it a second thought. Most of the time, I manage to avoid the crap, but sometimes it's disguised relatively well. (That's another thing that I hate...surprise slash. Or any romantic pairing, really. If you don't wanna give it away, say in the summary that it's Daniel/surprise or something! Don't trick me into thinking it's genfic and then smacking me with the disgusting gushy "Oh I looooooove you" shit that comes out of left field.)
Working for the Mandroid: AbsolutePowermoonshayde on July 10th, 2006 12:33 am (UTC)
Adoption papers???

Wow. Okay, so that is not how I read Daniel. Or Jack. I guess someone does and that's okay but...

Yup. Still not what I'm looking for.

And yes, surprise slash! No! Surprise het! No! If I want slash, I'll read slash. If I want het, I'll read het. If I want gen, I want gen. By nature, I don't like surprises, least of all in my fic.

(no subject) - martyfan on July 10th, 2006 12:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - amycooper on July 10th, 2006 12:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
sdanisdani on July 9th, 2006 11:19 pm (UTC)
Just out of curiousity, what are some of y'alls recs for fic with a Daniel written from a perspective of strength?
Working for the Mandroid: Danieltoonmoonshayde on July 10th, 2006 02:09 am (UTC)
Hmm. I need to consult old stuff I've read for this one. But I don't necessarily mean seeing Daniel as a man of strength. I think their all strong (and weak) in their own ways. I just tend to like fic as close to the show as possible or for what I consider in character. And that goes for all the characters

hsapiens just recced some down below. I'll be checking them out. And I'll let you know what I'ver come across that I've rather enjoyed.
(no subject) - sdani on July 10th, 2006 04:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
sela21k: SG-1 Coolsela21k on July 9th, 2006 11:24 pm (UTC)
I've seen some bad SG fic. I've noticed a disturbing amount of rape fic that is just too sick to talk about. *shudder* If Jack rapes Sam one more time...

The thing about not finding what you want to read is that as a writer, you are probably the one to write it. :D You know what you like. You know what we like. Write it - we'll read it.
kamelionleenys on July 9th, 2006 11:32 pm (UTC)
Okay, I'm gonna hold you to that if I ever finish this story.

Kam :)
(no subject) - sela21k on July 10th, 2006 02:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - moonshayde on July 10th, 2006 12:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sela21k on July 10th, 2006 02:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - moonshayde on July 10th, 2006 02:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - amycooper on July 10th, 2006 12:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
aurora_novarum: daniel by moonshaydeaurora_novarum on July 10th, 2006 12:24 am (UTC)
GAAAAAAH! Doing Daniel this month for stargateficrec has been torture. (Get your mind out of the gutter, you know what I meant, heh). I find I have to repeat this to myself:

I will not rec sappy Daniel fics this month.

I will not rec sappy Daniel fics this month.

I will not rec sappy Daniel fics this month.

The problem is sorting through all the dreck to find non-sentimental Daniel fics. It's not that I like the sappy fics (and don't get me started on "Danny"), it's that my resistence is wearing down after coming across fic after fic...and ones I *like* are already rec'ced or I've just done that author *cough cough*you*cough cough*.

It's very, sigh, disheartening.
Working for the Mandroid: Lonelymoonshayde on July 10th, 2006 12:37 am (UTC)
It's a bummer when you find the same thing over and over. And like I said

It's just sooo hard to find the fic I like. The fic I want. And yes, it's all about me. I want fic I can read. It's disheartening when you see a characterization that you don't particularly agree with have the volume it does. It has a right to be there. And people ahve a right to like it. And that's fine. I have friends that like it and I am happy for them.

But what about me? :(

And this is why I won't be reccing Daniel anytime soon. Bwahahahaha.
(no subject) - betacandy on July 10th, 2006 01:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - moonshayde on July 10th, 2006 01:25 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sela21k on July 10th, 2006 02:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - moonshayde on July 10th, 2006 02:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hsapiens on July 10th, 2006 01:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
Mish: DeeJ - Big Blue Eyeshsapiens on July 10th, 2006 01:22 am (UTC)
I know what you mean. I have read too many Little Danny Lost fics to count. I've learned to ignore particular writers and whole lists because I don't find the stories interesting.

I'm not certain why there's a tendency to make Daniel such a spineless, emotional wimp. Anyone who can achieve all that he did prior to being recruited by Catherine, without his parents, rejected by his grandfather, never adopted, and without a support system like the military? Well, hell, I tend to think that he is probably the strongest of the four. So, no, I don't get the idea that poor Danny is so put upon and sad and must go off and hide...just, no. He has his weaknesses but martyr complex isn't one of them.
Working for the Mandroid: Teammoonshayde on July 10th, 2006 01:31 am (UTC)
I think there are different tendancies with all characters, but since I gravitate toward Daniel. Maybe I am more sensitive to him.

And like I always say, I'm not condemning people who write or read these fics. It just would be nice to be able to find some different characterizations, some that are more in line with what I look for in a fic.

Then again, I'm a fairly strict canon writer so...

Like Urgo says, "Me, me, me, me me..."

It's just sometimes, I want to be able to pick up a fic and be like wow. That was really close to the show.

(no subject) - hsapiens on July 10th, 2006 02:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
cyren_2132: facecyren_2132 on July 10th, 2006 06:16 am (UTC)
I think that memo was stapled to the Jack must never treat Daniel like an adult memo. I've read fics where Daniel wasn't a simpering fool, but Jack was treating him like he was 12 (which, I suppose is an improvement from treating him like he was 5, but that's probably what it would have been if the topic of choice hadn't been Daniel's sex life).
Working for the Mandroid: Not Lostmoonshayde on July 10th, 2006 02:03 pm (UTC)
Haha. Yeah, don't get me started on Jack.

Or Sam.

And, well, Teal'c usually doesn't have lines so I don't have much to complain about with him.
ParisNTripFan: Danny2parisntripfan on July 10th, 2006 03:04 pm (UTC)
Great question.

I think that part of is that giving Daniel a really, really agnsty past is easy. Daniel is far from the only character in fandom I have seen this happen to I am not just talking about Stargate Fandom. In almost every fandom I have seen at least one, if not two, characters emerge as the favorite to not just whump on, but to emasculate.

I haven't read much SG-1 slash so I can't really speak to it, but in Voyager fandom then number of times I saw what I termed "the incredible shrinking Tom Paris fic" made wonder what show the writer was watching because it wasn't the show I saw on the screen week in and week out. I think that Daniel tends to suffer from the same problem. For some reason people want to see him as weak, even when as someone else said, given his past he, in some ways at least, is the strongest of the four. Now in some ways the writers of these fics may be trying to show that by making his past as horrible as possible and saying that he surived that, but that is not really needed. What the TPTB have given us over the years is enough.
The fact that Daniel stood up to entire academic community and contiune to preach what he knew to be the truth speaks volumes of his strengths.
The fact the Daniel lived off world for a year without support form Earth and managed in that time to become a leader within his new community within that year speaks to his strength.

Another reason I see this happening is that as been said that many writers indentify with Daniel. They may be projecting themselves onto him, or maybe they just want to mother him and do it through Jack. They want to have someone comfort him and forget that guys don't tend to hug each other as a form of showing support or "I am there for you." Guys are more likely to go out and have a few drinks or to go out and shoot some hoops or something like that.

I really don't get the Daniel needing hugs thing...to me Daniel is the least huggable character on the show. He has such this "zone of privacy" thing going on...Not many people can get that close (in terms of physical proximity) to him to give him hugs. This is not say that he doesn't care for the people around him, just that he is very protective of his space as it were.