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06 November 2008 @ 12:42 pm
Question about the last couple of SPN episodes  
I know I haven't posted any thoughts on Smallville and Supernatural last week. Did I? I don't even remember anymore. Anyway...

I do have a question about the episode of Supernatural, though. Spoilers, obviously.

Does Dean remember Hell?

I ask because I'm not sure what we're supposed to think. That might be the point. In Yellow Fever, hallucination!Lilith said that he remembered ever bit of it. In It's the Great Punpkin, Sam Winchester Uriel tells Sam to ask Dean what he remembers of Hell.

We've seen flashes of Dean remembering something in several episodes. (Btw, kudos for making the flashbacks weird and abstract and creepy without revealing anything. The screams last episode were a nice touch.)

But if Dean truly remembers everything, how can he act so much like Dean? Even if he's acting the part, wouldn't we seem him off in his private moments? I haven't picked up anything overly weird about Dean this season, except maybe a couple of brief debatable moments, but I could be missing something. I am not always that observant.

Or does he subconsciously remember Hell and only fragments are coming through. I always thought it was this option, but based on the above episodes, I am not so sure.

What are your thoughts? Am I failing to make a connection?
Current Mood: contemplativecontemplative
Destinadestina on November 6th, 2008 06:04 pm (UTC)
I think maybe Castiel has done something to help repress his memory so he can function. That's my theory, anyway. It seems like only flashes are coming through, bits and pieces; he doesn't seem traumatized by it, though - EXCEPT for that moment where he creeped away from fake!Lilith's touch in Yellow Fever. That cringing, slinking reaction to her was very telling. Possibly there is some reason we're unaware of why Dean can sort of remember hell, or pieces of it, but it isn't scaring/freaking him out. And that is an interesting possibility.
Working for the Mandroid: crossroadsmoonshayde on November 6th, 2008 07:55 pm (UTC)
Interesting. I never considered Castiel playing a part in it. I figured it was just the typical human reaction to block things out.

For me it seems like Castiel does know about the flashbacks considering that scene where he was watching Dean sleep.

But even the pieces and bits don't seem to freak Dean out aside from Yellow Fever which may indeed have been a bigger trigger. I know in last week's episode he did seem confused/slightly off when looking at the mask. That was more intense than the flashs and dreams he had before.

Interesting theory though. Hmmm.
Rae: Dean in your neighbourhoodautumnrae89 on November 6th, 2008 06:08 pm (UTC)
I think that his memories are there but in his subconcious and only through his dreams do they start to come out. I don't think he's properly aware of what his dreams mean either because they're so sporadic.

Does any of this make sense? o_O
Working for the Mandroid: Driftmoonshayde on November 6th, 2008 07:56 pm (UTC)
Makes perfect sense :)

I think he's been repressing them too and only has had bits and pieces come through and he hasn't quite made sense of it yet.

I guess we'll see :)

I love your icon, btw
maychorian: Dean wake upmaychorian on November 6th, 2008 06:10 pm (UTC)
I'm inclined to think that it's all being very strongly repressed, perhaps because of Castiel, perhaps simply because Dean's conscious mind can't deal with it. I think he does seemed freaked out when little hints come through, but being Dean, he refuses to acknowledge it, and will never tell Sam unless it becomes impossible to ignore. Dean doesn't like dealing with his own issues. Nope. Never. He'll do his best to pretend that nothing is wrong until he can't pretend anymore. (Which I am so looking forward to. I'm evil like that.)
Working for the Mandroid: Deanmoonshayde on November 6th, 2008 07:59 pm (UTC)
The Castiel theory wasn't something I'd considered. He seems to know what is going on with Dean, but he hasn't said anything. And it seems to me only bits and pieces are coming through to Dean and he hasn't really made sense of it all yet. It's just the past two episodes threw me a bit. Maybe Yellow Fever was a trigger. He looked unsettled in the last episode in the teacher's shop.

but when he does remember (if he hasn't already) it's gonna be great ;)
Nervous, Messed-Up Marionette: demon blood/going to hellsuperbadgirl on November 6th, 2008 06:16 pm (UTC)
I think it's all in there, but it's under lock and key. We'll eventually see more and more of it, especially now that Sam knows Dean wasn't completely honest about remembering nothing.
Working for the Mandroid: Father Figuresmoonshayde on November 6th, 2008 08:01 pm (UTC)
Silly boys and their lies.

It should be interesting. I still don't think he has remembered much at all, but I guess I'll see how it all goes down.

And I love that icon. It's so dorky that it makes me giggle.
lizardbeth: Dean with Metallicarlizardbeth_j on November 6th, 2008 06:26 pm (UTC)
I agree with the above. Remember when Castiel asked Dean what he was dreaming about? It sounded simply curious to me at the time, but now I wonder if Castiel was sort of checking how his work was holding. Like maybe he knows it's only temporary? Uriel implied Dean would remember if Sam asks, so I suspect that block isn't very strong.

Which in turn makes me wonder if there's something that happened to Dean there that he's going to NEED? Because it seems fairly obvious to me that Castiel could've made Dean forget. So there should be a reason he didn't. It could be as simple as free will, or showing Dean exactly what Hell on Earth would be like for extra motivation, but it also could give him powers or something necessary for the war.
Working for the Mandroid: Deanmoonshayde on November 6th, 2008 08:02 pm (UTC)
Interesting speculation. See, I have this feeling that Hell wanted to hold onto him for a reason and we don't know why yet. Now angels are involved. Something is going on even if it's as simple as needed something to check Sam and his power. So very interesting.

I don't think he really knows yet, but when the memories come back, ouch.
lizardbeth: Dean with Metallicarlizardbeth_j on November 6th, 2008 08:32 pm (UTC)
yes, definitley. And I think the idea that Dean is repressing it all himself works too. Probably doesn't really matter either way. Though I think Castiel knows Dean is holding it back.

But there's one thing that nags at me - the way that Uriel said that Dean should get off his high-horse, as if he'd done something awful in hell. maybe he'd been the victimizer, not the victim. And I wonder whether Dean DOES remember that. It's probably connected with how hell/Lillith wanted Dean in hell, and why the angels pulled him out, but we don't have much to go on yet.
Working for the Mandroid: crossroadsmoonshayde on November 7th, 2008 12:56 am (UTC)
About the Uriel thing, I agree. I have this feeling that Dean did something in Hell. he might had to have made alliances to survive or even became a torturer himself. I don't know if that is the case, but it's a possibility.

Also, I don't know. Seems like both heaven and hell have an interest in him.
Prehumous Professor of Morbid Bibliomancyblpurdom on November 6th, 2008 06:47 pm (UTC)
I also think it's simple repression, but I'm not convinced that Castiel has anything to do with it. That's just how the human brain works, but it also often becomes difficult to repress really traumatic experiences completely, so they start seeping out in unexpected ways, or you get side-effects of the repression, like split-personality disorder. (One personality remembers the trauma, one doesn't, and the one that doesn't fights to stay in control.)
Working for the Mandroid: brothers (winchester)moonshayde on November 6th, 2008 08:03 pm (UTC)
The Castiel spec was new to me, but I suppose it is a possibility. I am swaying more towards Dean repressing them himself as a normal human reaction and that the memories are slowly breaking through.

I guess we'll see what happens! It's exciting :)
Nialla: Supernaturalnialla42 on November 6th, 2008 07:21 pm (UTC)
I'm leaning towards the memories being there, but hidden in his own mind. The mind will go very far to protect the psyche (angel assistance or not), but with what he's been through, the memories are starting to form cracks and leak though.

I don't think even Dean knows if what he's getting glimpses of is real or not. Probably the more he thinks about it, the more it will come back to him, and he doesn't want it to be in his conscious mind.
Working for the Mandroid: Gravemoonshayde on November 6th, 2008 08:05 pm (UTC)
I think he's starting to understand the flashes he's getting based on how he reacted in the teacher's shop with that mask. Like I said, I am swaying toward Dean having repressed memories that are slowly breaking through, though the hallunciation of Lilith and Uriel's comments had confused me a bit.

I am really curious and interested to see what happens :)
{red wine and ambien, you're talking shit again}: SPN//Castiel//dragged you out of hellpowerof3 on November 6th, 2008 10:24 pm (UTC)
I always thought Castiel put a whammy on Dean once he pulled him out of Hell. I suppose, though, that it could just be his subconscious blocking things to keep him sane.

I wonder what he did while he was in hell, after that comment that Uriel made to Sam. I can't wait to see that one revealed.
jenni_fromtexas: Oh Deanjenni_fromtexas on November 6th, 2008 10:39 pm (UTC)
Good question! I've been thinking about how sometimes people recollect severe trauma - in glimpses and spurts of emotion. I'm wondering if that's what Dean is going through. I'm also figuring that Lilith was a projection of his mind while he was sick, and her saying that he remembers it all was his subconscious mind telling him the information is in his head but locked away...if that makes any sense, LOL. I'm a bit loopy right now, tired. :)

I also love those little abstract flashes. Really unnerving.
raloria - Screencapping Goddess: Dean3raloria on November 6th, 2008 11:59 pm (UTC)
My theory is that Dean may very well be remembering more than we think. The only reason we don't know this is because of the show's limited budget which keeps them from showing Hell all that much. He could also be repressing a lot of it and all he's getting are these flashes we see in the episodes. But I also think he remembers a lot more than he's letting on and there's going to be an awesome reveal to Sam and to us once he opens up about it. I love DeanAngst! Bring. It. On. :D
Banana Cavebanana_cave on November 8th, 2008 07:02 am (UTC)
People who have post traumatic stress are still themselves, despite what they've seen. Now in Dean's case, that's the ultimate trauma. And now we know that's why it explains his drinking, etc. But I don't think it would change his personality.
     Mandya_phoenixdragon on November 14th, 2008 06:36 am (UTC)
I think it's filtering through bi by bit - I think he can't quite wrap his mind around it! Like it's hazy and unreal and yet NOW is the dream - of what he used to be. He always seems to have that hesitant look, like he's going to wake up any minute now - and find himself back there. DAMN forty years is a long time! It's almost like he's right too, as he watches the nightmare unfold bfore him! Alot of people have been hollering about how he just stood there and let Sam hurt himself fighting Samhain - but I think he just slipped into that helpless watching mode that Hell puts you through - like he's just a shadow walking around witnessin it all...

And I'm blithering...

Poor Dean.

*hugs you*