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09 June 2010 @ 07:51 pm
SPN Discussion: Thoughts on Dean/Jo and Dean/Lisa  
When you lose part of your pairing for whatever reason and another takes center stage, I know it can be hard to keep enjoying your fave ship. So if you'll indulge me a moment where I talk about MY fave pairing on Supernatural and how I continue to enjoy them, and hope many of you will, too. (Even though I don't think many people on my flist like the pairing to begin with.)

I watch Supernatural primarily for the brothers. I never came into the show, rubbing my hands together, and plotting, "who shall I ship here?" My fave character is Dean, though I really like Sam and many other characters, and I honestly can't think of a character I full out hate. (The closest would be Bela.) Ihe brotherly relationship and the focus on family is what I love about this show and I will keep with it until it stops being that for me.

However, somewhere along the way I fell in love with Dean/Jo.

I'm not really up to debating otherwise, so please don't misunderstand this post and come in to tell me how wrong I am or how I'm misreading canon, but I firmly believe that Dean and Jo were in the beginning stages of love. You can argue me till you're blue, but the following is how I viewed their relationship in the show and that just won't change. I'm convinced that Jo loved him in S2 and he was attracted to her and he cared for her, but he wasn't really sure how to make sense of his feelings. Was she a hunter? Was she like a kid sister? Was she a hot chick he could tap? In the end, it wouldn't matter anyway. Sam was always Dean's #1 priority and I think she knew that by the time BUABS aired.

When Jo came back, we saw her as older and more mature, and she had moved outside her infatuation with Dean to a place where she could respect herself. I think the way she carried herself really helped Dean see her in a way that made more sense to him than back in S2 (when he was grieving for his dad on top of it). For me, Jo still loved him, but it was a more adult love than when she was younger. And Dean was reacting to that. Her death cut things short, and sadly, also clued him in on just how much he cared for her. Her death (and Ellen's) haunted him for the rest of the season. Dean figured it out when it was too late.

What would have happened if Jo had lived? I don't know. I could see the two of them starting a relationship. I think she is one of the few women who Dean respected enough to be with in a long-term romance. I could see them working, even if it would be tough, and she would still have been second best to Sam, even when Dean was at his lowest with his brother.

So what about Dean/Lisa? While I see Dean and Jo in the initial stages of love by the end of Abandon All Hope, I don't see Dean/Lisa in love yet. This isn't a slam on Dean/Lisa. Dean and Lisa had a one-night stand years ago. He only visited her to try to relive that wild kind of fun when he was dying. Since he found a different person instead, a more mature and grown mother, he had to reassess and reprocess. The Kids are Alright showed us that Dean and Lisa, while not being in love, still cared for each other, still had affection, still had a spark, and Lisa liked him enough that she wanted him to stay. Dean would have liked to stay. This could easily have turned into love if he had stayed.

In that episode, I could see Lisa, like Jo, as being someone he respected and could fall in love with. And when we saw Lisa again this season, the writers showed us again how much they cared for each other. But are they in love? For this viewer, no. I think Dean and Jo were in that first stage, but I don't see Dean and Lisa there.


Lisa has a ready made family for Dean. He wants one so so so bad. And now that Sam is gone, and he's keeping his promise to his brother, Dean will settle down with them. I see Dean being able to rekindle that spark with Lisa, as it never went away, and I can definitely see him falling in love with her. Maybe when S6 starts back up, he'll have already fallen and settled into a relationship with her. This won't bother me. Really.

Lisa and Jo are the only two characters I've seen so far that I'm convinced Dean could fall for.

What does that mean for this Dean/Jo fan? Look. Dean/Jo is my OTP. You can call me crazy and read my view of the show as totally biased. I don't care. But just because I adore Dean/Jo, doesn't mean I can't enjoy Dean/Lisa or enjoy where they take it in canon. I *like* Lisa. And I'm not against Dean/Lisa. Heck, I've mentioned Dean/Lisa as something Dean wanted in a fic before. I can continue to feel that Jo was the one for Dean, just as Jess was the one for Sam, and tragically they never had the chance. Bad timing. A little too late. But just because Dean lost the girl for him and Sam lost the girl for him, does that mean they can't move on?

I'm going to continue to love Dean/Jo as my OTP even as the show canon marches on. I will enjoy them in art and discussion and old viewings of the eps. I will keep writing them, when I have a chance, and will read when I have the time. Dean/Jo is my ultimate Dean pairing as Sam/Jess is my ultimate Sam pairing. It is what it is. I don't care if I'm the last one standing and not a soul cares what I post anymore.

Doesn't mean I can't celebrate Dean/Lisa and all that it brings. I just hope they don't do some weird thing and bring Jo back to have him dance back and forth between the two or spurn evil!ghost!Jo or whatever, LOL. Do Dean/Lisa and have Jo rest in peace or bring Jo back sometime if thing didn't work out with Lisa.

But that's me. I have no control over canon.

So you won't see me slam Dean/Lisa, but you won't see me belittle what Dean/Jo started to have, either.

I'm not trying to rationalize or validate why I like what I like. But I just wanted to say my bit. I hope that if any of you still like the pairing that you'll continue to ship them, even if just in art or vids or in our own little AUs. I'd hate to think I'm alone, LOL.
Current Mood: thoughtfulthoughtful
shayzgirl on June 10th, 2010 12:38 am (UTC)
I have found it harder to ship to Dean/Jo since her death. I finished my fic 'A Bad Dream' and I was going to write a sequel, but I just don't have the heart for it. They were, my OTP, but sadly I've moved on. I have a new OTP now. It's Damon/Elena from The Vampire Diaries. I can ship them because each week we so them, we see them interact and flirt (even if it is one sided flirting) we see the chemistry they have, the friendship and it's a nice slow burn that will hopefully one day lead to something more.

That was the thing that was missing with Dean/Jo. No build up, no slow burn. I'm not sure really when I started to ship Dean/Jo. I didn't start watching the show until before the 4th Season started (caught up by the time the second episode had aired) and then sometime during Season 4, I got an idea for a fic that involved Dean and Jo. I think that's where it started for me. After that, I began looking into the fandom and I found my fellow shippers.

Even though, it's been quiet at the DJ comm here on LJ, it was nice having a place where I could talk with fellow fans of SPN and fellow DJ shippers, because where I live, I have few friends who watch SPN and most of them are guys, so they didn't see what I did with DJ. Thanks to being in the comm, it gave me a reason to find a comm once I found my next fandom/ship. I knew I had nothing to fear, because people who are in your common fandom/ship are like you and they will embrace you. So, I'm thankful I found DJ.

I, too, don't hate Lisa. I never did. I liked her, a lot. I've been hoping we'd see her again and that maybe there would be a scene with Lisa saying, "Dean, I lied. Ben's yours." I was even trying to figure out how to fit Lisa and Ben into my sequel to ABD. I just... ABD took me a year to write and it was hard. I can't do it again. My TVD/DE fic I've struggled with it, but not like I struggled with ABD.

I'm not sure what the rules are on OTPs. If I can have more than one, than DJ are still my OTP (as well as DE being my OTP, too) but if not, then I guess DE is my OTP now. I will keep watching SPN until the show is over. I could have been happy with it ending with Season 5 and the last episode ending with Dean and Lisa together and no Sam standing under the light outside. I'll watch Season 6 and see what happens. I'm invested in these characters now. I want to see what happens to them.

I'll stop rambling now... haha. :)
Working for the Mandroid: Dynamic Duomoonshayde on June 10th, 2010 12:59 am (UTC)
There aren't any rules for anything. For example, I've loved Lois/Clark from Superman forever, and they are my OTP for that universe. You can have as many as you want.

I don't watch the VD so I have nothing to really say about it.

I'm just trying to point out that it's possible to continue to enjoy a pairing in AUs and in fandom when the pairing is done. And I hope some people in fandom will join me as it gets to be a bit lonely, heh.

It's okay if you're done and don't want to play in that pool anymore.
(no subject) - shayzgirl on June 10th, 2010 02:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
Jena Bartley: spn - dean/jo huntersjenab on June 10th, 2010 01:03 am (UTC)
I like how you laid out the relationship between Dean/Jo and Dean/Lisa. I see Dean and Jo the same way you do and you express that better than I could. I loved seeing how Jo matured and how her love for Dean also changed from a crush to something that had the potential to lead to a long term relationship with Dean.

I'm not sure about Dean/Lisa but I don't hate it. I see why Dean went to her at the end of the season but I would have preferred to see Dean go to Cassie since they had a relationship that even had Dean breaking one of the Winchester rule about not telling anyone what they did.

You lay out some interesting points about Dean/Lisa that could make them a viable couple and give me something to think about them.
Working for the Mandroid: Stronger Together (Dean/Jo)moonshayde on June 10th, 2010 01:10 am (UTC)
Thanks :)

I don't expect everyone to feel the same way I do, but that's how I have read the show. Poor Jo is the one that got away by circumstance, but I do think Dean is on his way of falling in love with Lisa. The potential is there at the very least.

I know a lot of people really liked Cassie. I'm going to be watching Route 666 soon so maybe I'll warm up to her more after I'm done.
(no subject) - claudiapriscus on June 10th, 2010 02:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - moonshayde on June 10th, 2010 02:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - claudiapriscus on June 10th, 2010 02:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
Meghan: looking uppeach_megumi on June 10th, 2010 01:20 am (UTC)
I definitely see Dean/Lisa as being more based around Ben than anything else - at least at the moment. I think you're right about it being mostly because Dean wants a family so badly (I site Lucas in season 1 as the beginning of this phenomenon) and he definitely loves Ben. I can see his love for the kid, affection for (and attraction to) Lisa, and his strong desire for a family letting it grow into love, but I don't think it's there yet.

Dean/Jo I initially saw just as flirting and attraction, but it definitely matured with them. Jo was never one of my favourite character when they first introduced her, but I adore her now - she turned into such a strong, likable character. Abandon All Hope was so heartbreaking (Ellen and Jo! **wails**) - and I think that episode proves the Dean/Jo thing. Their kiss right before... gah! They just grew so much, and had such potential... I was finally convinced, but what can you do? He'll always have Jo in his heart, though. We all know that Dean is a not-so-secret softie.
Working for the Mandroid: Not Amused (Ellen and Jo)moonshayde on June 10th, 2010 01:29 am (UTC)
That's exactly how I feel and you said it so well! And in so few words! It actually took me a while to warm up to Jo, too.

I was finally convinced, but what can you do? He'll always have Jo in his heart, though. We all know that Dean is a not-so-secret softie.

For me, at least, that is what AU's are for! But I agree. That episode just really summed it all up. Dang. They were finally maturing to the point where something could happen. Oh well.

At least Ellen and Jo went out with true hunter class.
(no subject) - peach_megumi on June 10th, 2010 01:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thisoldhighway on June 10th, 2010 08:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - moonshayde on June 10th, 2010 01:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Michelleseramercury on June 10th, 2010 01:33 am (UTC)
I ship Dean/Jo as well (my Big Bang fic will attest to that) and I also have on problem with the Dean/Lisa ship. I agree with you, though, I don't think they're in love yet.

However I know a lot of people say it's out of the blue and I disagree. In Dream a Little Dream Of Me Dean didn't dream of Jo, he dreamed Lisa.

I think someone mentioned Cassie, but I think that would have been more left field because although Dean really did care enough to tell her about the family business, she wasn't interested in keeping him around where Lisa was fine with it after The Kids Are Alright

Just my 2 cents! :D

PS They better not kill Lisa off though or I won't be happy. LOL!! She can make a decision about breaking things off, that I'd be okay with.

Edited at 2010-06-10 01:35 am (UTC)
Working for the Mandroid: Two Hunters (Dean/Jo)moonshayde on June 10th, 2010 01:39 am (UTC)
Yup. He was dreaming of Lisa and Ben and the ordinary life they offered. Dean has wanted a family since very early on in the series. Lisa was a way of giving that to him already prepackaged and ready to go. It just helped that he actually cared about her and had affection for her. That is why I can easily see him falling in love with her.

Doesn't take away from Dean/Jo, imo. Dean just finally clued in a little too late. They are still my ship of choice. :)

I don't know what they;ll do with Lisa. They could opt to have Dean and her stay together or she and Ben could disappear and cause him angst or they could kill her or they could break up. No idea what they have planned LOL
(no subject) - claudiapriscus on June 10th, 2010 02:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - moonshayde on June 10th, 2010 02:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - claudiapriscus on June 10th, 2010 02:34 am (UTC) (Expand)
thisoldhighway: jo angry DEANthisoldhighway on June 10th, 2010 07:58 am (UTC)
Hear hear! ::cheers::

I will definitely continue to love Dean/Jo, no matter where the canon goes. (although, honestly, it makes me a bit queezy the way they shoved Dean with Lisa at the end of this season... couldn't they at least have had *more* build up so we could make sense of it?)

I'd DIE and go to Heaven if they brought Jo back next season. ::claps:: But only if they did it right and didn't bring her back as an evil!ghost or something hideous like that. :)

Thanks for speaking your bit! You reminded me why I fell in love with the pairing.
Working for the Mandroid: Shotgun (Dean/Jo)moonshayde on June 10th, 2010 01:50 pm (UTC)
Thanks! It's good to know that there are people still soldiering on :)

But I do think they built up both Dean/Jo and Dean/Lisa. Do you remember in S3 in the episode Dream a Little Dream of Me? Dean was dreaming of Lisa and the family fantasy she brought with her. He was embarrassed a before Lisa, but she made it seem possible. Plus he really adored Ben. So I did see the foundation for it, but I also saw the foundation of Dean and Jo's love becoming more mature. It was just cut short because didn't didn't really realize it until it was too late :(
Banana Cavebanana_cave on June 10th, 2010 01:49 pm (UTC)
SPN Discussion: Thoughts on Dean/Jo and Dean/Lisa
You are the most rational shipper ever. When they reintroduced Lisa I was like "who? Oh the one with the kid!" I don't remember her much but I'm happy for Dean.

I didn't like the roadhouse people at first. But once Jo & Ellen came back I liked them...then they died. I was never into Dean/Jo but I liked her and it was very tragic when she died. Obviously that effected Dean & brought him closer to Sam - the only one he had left. (Except Bobby).
Working for the Mandroid: Dynamic Duomoonshayde on June 10th, 2010 03:03 pm (UTC)
Re: SPN Discussion: Thoughts on Dean/Jo and Dean/Lisa
Shippers get a bad name ;)

But I'm actually here for SPN for the brothers, not their romantic entanglements. I just happened to like Dean/Jo later on. It took me a while to warm up to Jo.

I don't hate Lisa either and I can make sense of it from a story point of view. I'm curious where they take it :)
     Mandy: Daydreaming Deana_phoenixdragon on June 10th, 2010 02:49 pm (UTC)
Personally, I'm not a hetter (not really a shipper, technically) but I certainly hope there are a lot of D/J shippers left out there. It was so popular, I really can't see why that would change. Dean/Lisa will get big I'm sure, but D/J shippers will always be out there. Me? I prefer them as loners, brothers - involved with the business and family - but I'm a rarity, lol!

Working for the Mandroid: Dusty Brothersmoonshayde on June 10th, 2010 03:06 pm (UTC)
I hope people continue to ship them. It would be nice to keep them alive in AU's and other forms.

I don't think you are rare. I've said countless times that I come to the show for the brothers and that is the most important aspect for me. My perfect endings would be the two going to the Grand Canyon or driving off into the sunset to hunt another day. This show is all about the Winchester family for me.

But I also ended up liking Dean/Jo. I can be all about the btothers and still like a pairing here or there ;)
(no subject) - a_phoenixdragon on June 10th, 2010 03:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
deangirl20deangirl20 on June 10th, 2010 04:14 pm (UTC)
I totally agree and you are not alone in this. I also like Dean/Jo and never give up on them either even though Dean is with Lisa. I don't hate her but I don't Dean is really in love with Lisa. Dean is really in love with Jo. I'm still keep Dean/Jo alive by fanfic, mv, fanart that I have done so far. Dean/Jo is my ultimate Dean pairing too. I will not slam Dean/Lisa. Just want to I'm Dean/Jo Shipper and will always will. Nothing will change that even if the show turn out different. Thank sharing what you think. Appreciate it. I will be posting more Dean/Jo stuff soon. Stay tuned for it.
MegTDJ: SPN - Jo Ellenmeg_tdj on June 10th, 2010 08:23 pm (UTC)
Me, I'm used to ships carrying on just as strong after one or both of them dies, so you feeling the need to justify it is what feels weird to me. ;)

In my opinion, it's all a case of "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with." Lisa is basically all Dean has left at this point. I mean, yeah, there's Bobby, but Bobby wants to keep hunting, and he'd just remind Dean on a daily basis of what he's lost. He needs to leave it all behind and start a new life, and Lisa is absolutely PERFECT for that. It actually makes me wonder if that's why they brought her into the show in the first place.

But yeah, in the hunting world, if Jo had lived, Dean/Jo would have happened and would have worked. I do think she was his Jess in a way... not completely, because they hadn't had a long-term relationship and he wasn't about to propose when she died, but that's just because there was so much going on for Dean every time their paths crossed, whereas the path had been purposefully cleared for Sam and Jess when they met (*fires flaming arrows at Brady just on principle*). But yeah. I mean Jess, Jo, and Mary even LOOK alike, and Jo's death definitely impacted Dean more than any other since John. What he felt for her went way deeper than just flirting, and that doesn't just evaporate when someone dies. So neither should the ship.

Edited at 2010-06-10 08:27 pm (UTC)
Working for the Mandroid: Dean/Jo Heartmoonshayde on June 10th, 2010 10:53 pm (UTC)
I'm not justifying it! It's just I never get to talk about it and sometimes I just have to. I love that ship and I feel so alone in loving it. And it makes sense and I see it on screen, but people are always talking around it, saying it's not there, or going the opposite way and hating Dean/Lisa. So I can't win.

Sucks to feel like you ship so very alone.

But I agree with what you said.